Lords of Creation 15 (OCC)

[Philote]

You just have to keep in mind that the new rules can not break what we did in the First Age. If we started a new game it would be fine cause we could create things according to the rules. If the rules alter creations from the First Age too much though then it would not make sense.

I've always used Mythos to be creatures and Races to be the ones to create civilizations and Servitors to be the workforce of Spirits.

[Tsubasa & Wen Tien]

Well, that's exactly how I viewed Servitors, though Mythos were always beings that outstripped any race and were eclipsed by the gods alone in my mind. They could help the races though as you said, the races were the ones who built the civilizations for the most part.

[Zaleramancer]

Your current interpretation breaks other people's creations. :P

[Philote]

 There is no way to make what we have then fit under a nice set of rules without making it convaluted and having to rework everything repeatedly. I almost just want to start from a blank slate so that we can just make things that work correctly under the rules instead of having to work out so many special cases.

Are we going to have to define things such as Servitor-Race such as the Watchers and any other combo that could arise?

We either need very basic rules that can cover all the variances that come from a group of people each told to "Make Something" or to make very strict rules and cut out everything that would not fit nicely into those rules.

[Tsubasa & Wen Tien]

That just sounds like you don't want to do the work that comes with anything worthwhile. Do note that I initially had just as much stuff to make profiles for as you did, but now I only have my races to define as I took the time to do it and not complain. I asked for help in determining what to choose for each thing and I've lowered my workload. Why don't you try to figure out how to fit everything in and complain only when they actually can't fit? I'm pretty sure that everything you made can fit within the system if you think hard enough. The hardest part should be the actual creation, NOT the profiling.

[Philote]

I've worked under the rules more than anyone except maybe yourself. More than the fact that I have many creations that would have to be reworked is that I have many plans that are contingent on how the rules work out. I can only plan on future creations by using and following accurately the rules provided. Not only would I have to change things established in the RP, but I would have to rework how I would have every one of my creations act in the future, including ones that I've yet to use within the story.

[Zaleramancer]

Suggestions are welcome, as always.

It's not like I make the rules set-in-stone.

[Philote]

If races where to be divided into mundane and mythical races, that would completely alter how Eternus works.

If Genasi and Shardmind became mythical while the rest became mundane, it would no longer be a land of equally powerful warriors all striving and pushing themselves to be the best.

If they all became mythical, then either mundane races would be useless within the story or my races would have an advantage over everyone elses.

If they were all mundane in order to protect the balance within Eternus and to allow for them to keep their Orders, then what was supposed to be powerful races would be dwarfed by others simply because of a profiling title.

[Philote]

Philote wrote

We either need very basic rules that can cover all the variances that come from a group of people each told to "Make Something" or to make very strict rules and cut out everything that would not fit nicely into those rules.

@Zale: Which of these two fit your views of the RP, or is there some third option I'm not seeing.

[Zaleramancer]

Then talk with me.

You know I'm not brutally uncompromising most of the time.

You could always just make a certain segment of a mundane race Mythic.

Like Amazons. Human, but stranger.

[Tsubasa & Wen Tien]

Both types of races would have weaknesses appropriate to their racial tier. I do believe Zale said that already. E.G. Any of  Mina's Vampires as a race are dead if they enter sunlight. You'd just need to figure out those because everything has a weakness and a strength.

[Zaleramancer]

You're going to have to explain more.

[Zaleramancer]

The first makes the most sense, but you refuse to budge, so eh.

The second would be fitting for someone like Gil. Basically, rather than many weak individuals, you have a few mighty ones.

Of course, you had to make humans.

The third one is a boring option.

You seem to be complaining that if you do X they'll be to powerful, but if you do Y they'll be to weak.

It musn't be so.

You still have Dragons, remember. Dragons>Armies.

[Philote]

The compromising part though is a problem I believe for any of the rule sets we have. If we allow special cases that go outside the rules, such as Dryad's special creatures on her plane, Jester's Spirit that was also a Divine Artifact sword, or even Gilgamesh's ability to combine into Pantheo.

We either need rules that allow for this to happen (Which would require things being less strict on how things are defined) or rules where only things that fit completely within the rules would be allowed, and no special cases to make things work would be given. Our imaginations are greater than our ability to make rules to cover every scenario.

[Philote]

I do not want rules that change previous story elements if possible. It would be like creating a rule that all Servitors have to be mindless creations that serve the will of a Spirit. This is how my Servitors are but it would destroy Vault's Watchers.

Our biggest problem is making old content work with new rules because we waited to long to set things straight. Too many people had too many views on different aspects of what the rules meant and how creations should act so that now they do not all fit the same mold.

[Zaleramancer]

I guess. I don't want to make built in flaws utterly mandatory because Phi would be upset.

Fishfolk, for instance, couldn't survive the surface world normally anymore than a surface dweller could survive their home.

On land, they'd be suffocating, blind, giddy from pressure differences, unable to walk..

However with enough magic, they'd be able to stumble onto land.

However, say, the Swan Maidens.

They can turn into beautiful swans and people.

If anyone gets their clothing, then they're bound to serve that person. Marry or Minion.

Can't go free until they get it back, though without it they can't transform.

Magical problem, that.

[Tsubasa & Wen Tien]

I can respect that. However, right now, we need rules on Races and the tiered Races sound good to me. While I can see why Phi doesn't care for it, due to the Miracles he did in the First Age, none of his races fit as normal races, which is part of the reason I'm also all for making the Miracles that boosted ANY Race under ANY God have disappeared by the Second Age.

[Philote]

The flaws thing extends from the fact that it would retroactively apply flaws to creatures that existed in the past and I believe things could be balanced without making them mandatory.

[Zaleramancer]

That stems from a magical thing called DM fiat.

Miracles can do nearly anything, to be honest. It's not a question of can I do X, it's how much oomph do I have to pile onto a problem to fix it.

If you'd like a god-item, then just make an item and then a god.

Patheo? Surge of divine power.

The fact is- I'm trying to make rules to cover the things you guys HAVE done already.

You'll do more and I'll have to make more rules to cover the expansion of the game.

[Zaleramancer]

So, we should give up now.