Debate!

[Zaleramancer]

Alright.

There's someone in a debate thread on Tvtropes who argues that by conceiving someone, you are impinging on their rights.

Because you made the decision of whether or not they exist for them.

[Celadon's Penultimate]

Well, that's asinine.

We're not freaking supernatural jinni, being forcefully dragged here from the Otherworld! We're created from the, um, building materials of the two parents that produce us!

Otherwise, how would anyone get here, to even make such an inane argument in the first place?

[Zaleramancer]

You don't.

[Celadon's Penultimate]

 So, being here is entirely a negative experience, and no good could come of it? The simple fact that you ever came into existence is somehow a cosmic tragedy?

[Zaleramancer]

Yes.

[Whd]

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[Zaleramancer]

Me?

[Celadon's Penultimate]

Um, is that a good thing, or a bad thing?

[Whd]

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[Zaleramancer]

I disagreed with him and tried to debate, but it came down to him saying those things.

That humanity is better off extinct, because at least then we won't trample on anyone's rights.

[Philote]

What about the people who want to be born?

But in all seriousness, this just seems like a dumb debate

[Zaleramancer]

They don't exist to want. Which makes it ok. Somehow.

[Celadon's Penultimate]

 Well, in all honesty, it sounds like a troll argument. Completely inane; asinine, idiotic, brainless, ridiculous, moronic, whatever other word you can come up with. I mean, seriously, who could really say that birth in itself is some kind of tragedy, or that you should be offended at your parents for creating you? I mean, if that's the case, then he/she should go kill himself/herself, if they think life is so terrible. I mean, apparently, THEY don't appreciate their life, so they should make room in the world for someone who does. And I didn't ask to be here, but dang it, I'm glad my parents made the choice for me.

It is your right NOT to exist, but it's also your right TO EXIST. And if you don't appreciate your right to exist, then, by all means, feel free to relinquish the privilege.

I mean, if he/she hates or disdains life and living so much, then why use the advantages afforded to them in the world of the living? Why eat food? Why drink anything? Why even use the internet (especially to voice your opinions)? Why not just kill yourself? And when people die around him/her, he/she shouldn't cry, or mourn, or feel any kind of sympathy for people who lose loved ones, because life in itself is a tragedy, and so the undoing of life should be something to celebrate!

That kind of thinking is plain twisted, demented, and destructive. In my mind, it has all the makings of a fanatic, nihilistic terrorist, to be honest; not only suicidal, but homicidal. If you find that life and birth are an offense to nature, or to the world, then it's all the easier to justify taking life. That kind of thinking is dangerous, potentially detrimental to all life on this or any other planet.

And deep down inside, whoever had half a mind to make such a completely ridiculous argument, knows it.

[Philote]

I just got back from attending a Christian guest speaker from my college.

The topic was over how Moral Obligations can not exist without God and his argument against Ethical Relativism. Was very interesting

[Zaleramancer]

So, without God there are no Morals?

[Philote]

That was the idea

[Celadon's Penultimate]

Well, it certainly is something worthy of debate.

Though, to be honest, it could only ever be confirmed or denied in an abstract. In such a situation, one would first have to completely confirm or completely deny the existence of God (or A god).

It seems to have quite volatile potential.

[Zaleramancer]

Quite Volatile.

Because I disagree with both of the aforementioned assertions.

[Philote]

The guy's argument was that there were Moral Obligations that existed for all humanity. How people act is based on their Factual Believes + Moral Standards that equal their Moral Judgements. Moral Standards don't change but people/culture's Factual Believes change.

[Celadon's Penultimate]

And I believe that a middle ground is best, without polarizing either way.