Mary Sue vote.

[jester_of_god]

Just a little perspective. Submit a character, with a short description and then we discuss if this is a Mary Sue/Gary Stu. it can be a character you made yourself, or it could be one from well known fiction, or even indie. how about we start then. If no one begins in the next hour or so I'll submit my character kaen Olympia.

[Celadon's Penultimate]

Superman.

Wikipedia wrote

As an influential archetype of the superhero genre, Superman possesses extraordinary powers, with the character traditionally described as "faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, and able to leap tall buildings in a single bound", a phrase coined by Jay Morton and first used in the Superman radio serials and Max Fleischer animated shorts of the 1940s[96] as well as the TV series of the 1950s. For most of his existence, Superman's famous arsenal of powers has included flight, super-strength, invulnerability to non-magical attacks, super-speed, vision powers (including x-ray, heat-emitting, telescopic, infra-red, and microscopic vision), super-hearing, and super-breath, which enables him to blow out air at freezing temperatures, as well as exert the propulsive force of high-speed winds.[97]

As originally conceived and presented in his early stories, Superman's powers were relatively limited, consisting of superhuman strength that allowed him to lift a car over his head, run at amazing speeds and leap one-eighth of a mile, as well as an incredibly dense body structure that could be pierced by nothing less than an exploding artillery shell.[97] Siegel and Shuster compared his strength and leaping abilities to an ant and a grasshopper.[98] When making the cartoons, the Fleischer Brothers found it difficult to keep animating him leaping and requested to DC to change his ability to flying; this was an especially convenient concept for short films, which would have otherwise had to waste precious running time moving earthbound Clark Kent from place to place.[99] Writers gradually increased his powers to larger extents during the Silver Age, in which Superman could fly to other worlds and galaxies and even across universes with relative ease.[97] He would often fly across the solar system to stop meteors from hitting the Earth, or sometimes just to clear his head. Writers found it increasingly difficult to write Superman stories in which the character was believably challenged,[100] so DC made a series of attempts to rein the character in. The most significant attempt, John Byrne's 1986 rewrite, established several hard limits on his abilities: he barely survives a nuclear blast, and his space flights are limited by how long he can hold his breath.[101] Superman's power levels have again increased since then, with Superman currently possessing enough strength to hurl mountains, withstand nuclear blasts with ease, fly into the sun unharmed, and survive in the vacuum of outer space without oxygen.

The source of Superman's powers has changed subtly over the course of his history. It was originally stated that Superman's abilities derived from his Kryptonian heritage, which made him eons more evolved than humans.[73] This was soon amended, with the source for the powers now based upon the establishment of Krypton's gravity as having been stronger than that of the Earth. This situation mirrors that of Edgar Rice Burroughs' John Carter. As Superman's powers increased, the implication that all Kryptonians had possessed the same abilities became problematic for writers, making it doubtful that a race of such beings could have been wiped out by something as trifling as an exploding planet. In part to counter this, the Superman writers established that Kryptonians, whose native star Rao had been red, possessed superpowers only under the light of a yellow sun.[102]

Superman is most vulnerable to green Kryptonite, mineral debris from Krypton transformed into radioactive material by the forces that destroyed the planet. Exposure to green Kryptonite radiation nullifies Superman's powers and immobilizes him with pain and nausea; prolonged exposure will eventually kill him. The only substance on Earth that can protect him from Kryptonite is lead, which blocks the radiation. Lead is also the only known substance that Superman cannot see through with his x-ray vision. Kryptonite was first introduced to the public in 1943 as a plot device to allow the radio serial voice actor, Bud Collyer, to take some time off.[71] Although green Kryptonite is the most commonly seen form, writers have introduced other forms over the years: such as red, gold, blue, white, and black, each with its own effect.[103]

[Marvelous Miscreant]

Yes, the man won't die...he just gets a little sunlight and he's back in action.

[Celadon's Penultimate]

Precisely. Not to mention, his ever-changing powers. Main ones remain, but every once in a while a new one emerges.

I don't know if that's true now, but it was for a while.

[Philote]

He can fly around the world and turn back time

[Celadon's Penultimate]

Yeah, not to mention, didn't a version of him arise at one time that was IMMUNE to Kryptonite?

[Marvelous Miscreant]

Superman Prime.

[Celadon's Penultimate]

 Indeed.

[Gentleman Vaultboy]

Superman is not a Mary Sue. A Mary Sue is not measured in how powerful a character is. A Mary Sue is a character that warps the plot in such a way that everything in the plot works FOR them. All challenges are easy, all other characters love them, the world itself bend over backwards to accommodate them and their wishes.

That is what makes a sue a sue. Not power, not personality, not the effect they have on the world. What defines a Mary Sue is the effect they have on the Narrative.

[jester_of_god]

Actually what makes a true mary sue is a combination of those for factors in total.....a true mary sue for just the point of being a mary sue would be best exampled by this character in DBZM who actually carries the name Mary Sue.





of course this sickening creature is an extreme example but an example none the less.

in addition to this. there are also characters like these that can be used as an extreme example

[Zaleramancer]

I don't think superman is a mary sue..

Unless he is universally adored, never fails and never makes mistakes.

Power is only a small part of Mary sue-ness.

[jester_of_god]

So it appears that the final verdict would seem to be.

Overpowered enough to kill a polytheistic god, but not perfect enough in action or charisma to be considered a Gary Stu.

If all agree, we will move on to the next case.

[Celadon's Penultimate]

 So the fact that he has NEVER stayed dead, despite numerous "deaths" throughout his continuity...that means little as well?

[Philote]

I'm pretty sure Superman is, every non villain that knows him pretty much loves him, he always wins, even when he is temporarily defeated with death he just comes back to win.

Is there any DC hero that outranks him?

[Celadon's Penultimate]

No. No, there is not.

At least I don't THINK Batman is a Mary-Sue...I'm pretty sure he doesn't count.

[Gentleman Vaultboy]

It's a super hero comic. No one stays dead in those, besides Bucky, Gwen Stacy, and Uncle Ben, and I'm pretty sure all three of them have come back at some point. In the hands of a good writer, Superman doubts himself and beats himself up over the fact that he can not possibly be there to save everyone.

I'd like to point also point out that Superman is not universally adored, just that the majority love. The difference between this and the type of adoration that a typical sue inspires is that Superman has EARNED it, whereas a sue would receive such praise simply by existing within the story.

Jester, that one that you posted is obviously a parody. If you want an example of a REAL Mary sue, check this out:
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/7505541/1/I_cant_Explain
Read if you can stand it. These are two prime examples.

[Philote]

True, it is hard to judge when nobody in the series dies or loses if they're a hero.

[Celadon's Penultimate]

@ GVB's link:

But, yeah, I honestly can't say much about his qualifications as a Sue or not. I don't read comics, only the Wikipedia, Marvel and DC comic reviews.

Personally, when Jester brought up the topic, the first thing that popped into mind was THIS.

[Gentleman Vaultboy]

There are millions of them just like those two, and most of them are worse. I've seen Sues in everything from Caiue to Lord of the Flies, and all the fiction in between.

[Celadon's Penultimate]

 Sues in Lord of the Flies? I'm almost afraid to ask, for fear of your ruining one of my literary favorites...

But...um, who?