Internet Awesomeness: Once More, with Feeling!

[Celadon's Penultimate]

[Celadon's Penultimate]

[Ericus Europaeus (Bug)]

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[Celadon's Penultimate]

[Celadon's Penultimate]

SOMEBODY MAKE THIS GAME! I WANNA PLAY!!!

[Whd]

I am not the freak out kid. Like DBZ, but not that much.

[WonderDrow]

[Zaleramancer]

[Philote]

Lacking a religion thread, I'm posting this here

[Celadon's Penultimate]

 That WAS good.

Very nice, Phi.

[Zaleramancer]

Really.

Your greatXlots parents screwed up, so now you must suffer for their sins, in addition to anything you happen to do. It's all human fault. God is blameless for his inability to help reduce the amount of suffering people have in a way that doesn't circumvent their free will.

These sorts of videos only really work to reinforce what people already think. You already take the idea "God is good" as a solid fact, so this merely provides a basis for that idea to become a fact in your mind.

It doesn't explain why people have to suffer. God could have made people have free will, but could have also constructed the world in a way to keep people from, say, starving to death or suffering from mental illnesses..

..or choking because food went down the wrong pipe.

While I admire the Christian religion, the god associated with it still seems to be inexplicable and hypocritical.

[Philote]

Speaking from how I believe reality to work, its not just my ancestor's fault that the world is screwed up with sin, I've experienced an unimaginable amount of sin myself to contribute to the world being screwed up. God is planning to get rid of suffering though.

[Zaleramancer]

I think you underestimate the ability and resources of something that exists beyond all space and time that is capable of seeing anything and doing anything..

Anyway, the basis of the argument is flawing.

It's not a logical contradiction.

I can manipulate the fuck out of people. Anyone can.

Why God is for some reason incapable of doing so is beyond me.

I can understand the argument that God is respectful of human Free Will, and therefore refuses to tinker with the decisions of individual humans, though.*

*Even though this is no excuse for allowing people to suffer for eternity, because they made a choice without understanding what's at stake.

[Philote]

Which part am I underestimating? You say that I'm underestimating God and then saying you understand God not interfering with free will doesn't seem to go together

I would say God is still involved and I would say that his presence can be noticed without requiring some burning bush type of act.

[Celadon's Penultimate]

So, He should give people free will, and then manipulate them in His favor, so they follow Him regardless of their free will? That hardly sounds fair. I couldn't even think of an apt comparison of just how terribly out-thought we would be. We'd be helpless against Him, and it'd be basically the same as Him controlling us, anyway. I'd rather be tried by the fire of everyday life, than subject to a deceitful trickster god or oppressed by an insidious tyrant god, any day.

And people always understand what's at stake before going to Hell; I think God is ingenious in insuring that, otherwise God is an unjust God. He wouldn't send somebody to Hell without that person knowing that there was some consequence for their actions. The point at which people start being aware of the consequences of wrongful actions, is when they start being accountable for what they do.

I'm confident that God wouldn't send people to Hell who deserve to go to heaven, and likewise wouldn't send anyone to Heaven who deserved to go to Hell. How exactly He determines their innocence or guilt, is not up for me to say, as I do not possess the mind of God (I can only go by what the Bible has to say). Though, I'm sure that with that all-encompassing logic of His, that you seem intent on turning against Him, He could easily explain, and rightfully justify why He carries about governing the universe and all of existence as He does.

I suggest you ask Him yourself, when Judgment comes and you can see Him in person. I have plenty of questions I intend to ask Him as well.

[Philote]

I was at this event called "I do not have enough Faith to be an Atheist" where I heard of this video and thought it was interesting enough to share. (More info at http://crossexamined.org/ if anyone wants to check)

The way the speaker put it was not so much God forcing people into Hell but God not forcing people into Heaven, because if a person does not want a relationship with God then why would God force that person to be with him for eternity.

[Zaleramancer]

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[Zaleramancer]

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[Zaleramancer]

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[Philote]

Zaleramancer wrote

I'm arguing against the argument stated in the video.

Which is God doesn't make life better because he can't interfere with our decisions.

Which is bunk.

It's more like: God is too nice to make you do the right thing.

It sounds like we're talking about the same thing here.

As for the other parts, I'm sorry you've had bad experiences with Christianity in the past. I hope you do not see me in the same light as those who do not follow it properly (And to be fair I'm not following it fully either since I'm no saint). The way I see Christianity is that it something that requires people to look into it, to make a reasonable judgement instead of just following it blindly and that if you are a Christian, you realize that you're in the same boat as everyone else (Meaning you have to be open to everyone since you're sinning just as much as them).