Would a Race of -Whatever- Take Over the World?

[Mik_Hael]

Barely, and as I said, this would be done over the course of years, more than enough time for then to adjust.

[Tsubasa & Wen Tien]

Eh, I still doubt that they'd all end up with teenage bodies, plus their minds would be used to their older, closer to dying bodies.

Those people might have had those experiences, but they also likely can't talk in dialects understandable by people in their own countries, much less from other regions of the world. People in America and Britain talk differently. Even people in different regions of America itself talk in different ways and we can't always understand what others are saying.

You said that religions would take in Shakyamuni Buddha and Gandhi willingly. I don't doubt that Gandhi might agree to join or talk with them, but Shakyamuni Buddha rejected Hinduism at the time and likely would today, but he likely wouldn't try to take over the world or correct the philosophies that sprang up from his teachings because his teachings state that all of creation is impermanent. Take it as you will, but based on what I've studied, he wouldn't cooperate in taking over the world. He refused to become the leader of an Indian kingdom TWICE for crying out loud. Ruling over others just doesn't appeal to him like it would most people.

[Mik_Hael]

Your poking holes in the origional basis of, 'An army of the past bent on taking over the world appears' for whatever reason, they want to conquer the world, simple as that.

As for the Dialect scenario, we do well enough, as long as the difference isn't as far as the queens english vs Louisiana biu it should be fine.

[Tsubasa & Wen Tien]

.... That is kind of the point. The more holes I can poke in the basis, the more it becomes evident that they couldn't take over the world.

We do well enough? That's because we can also write things out so that people can tell what we're talking about. And yes, dialect can hinder things a lot. Misuse one phrase and everything falls to pieces.

[Mik_Hael]

Okay let's see a reason for them trying to take over the world, let's just say that they believe that if they don't the whole of the karmic balance will be destroyed, the earth will Fall into turmoil, humans will be reduced to cattle to be devoured by towering demons, and if they tell anyone of the modern day this all of existence will be destroyed. The point is that for whatever reason, they are here to conquer the world.

The difference in Dialect between those of the not so distant past and now would not be enough to cause rampant dissarray in their planning, strategy, or council meetings, as for the discrepancy within the army given that this is the past several intermediaries can simply translate if need be.

[Tsubasa & Wen Tien]

.... And you do realize that that is so complex that you can't actually argue it as a premise? Even if this topic is highly unlikely to happen, barring some weird change in continuums.

And you're also assuming that all of the intermediaries can actually manage to get together. Getting together in and of itself would require money and planning, which also requires shared languages. Have you ever tried playing telephone with people in more than one language? Neither have I, it would be nearly impossible. The meaning of a phrase in one time may mean something different in another and there are lots of phrases that are fine today that wouldn't have been years back.

[Mik_Hael]

We're arguing every notable person ever from history somehow appearing in the present and waging war on us, and before this it was aliens, and mythical demigods, that point is invalid.

Once again the intermediaries and translates existing within the army.This not counting the assumption that after people die they may have the ability to speak the language pre-babel.

[Tsubasa & Wen Tien]

Your point on why they'd be invading has changed too many times and every notable person in history does not add up to a full army, which was also one of your points. You're kind of invalidating yourself. You can't randomly change variables when you want to.

And why would anyone be able to speak the pre-babel language? There is nothing in Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Confucianism, Hinduism, Greek mythology, Shintoism, etc that says everyone speaks the same language after death nor are there enough notable people in history to form anything close to an army. You'd have more people than the ones you're arguing on, plus some of the notable people speak only in dead languages that have no modern speakers. *cough* Egyptian Pharaohs *cough*.

[Celadon's Penultimate]

The only folks able to speak Pre-Babel would undoubtedly be the folks who existed during that time. And ONLY if you encounter them before Babel. After, I'm guessing that even the Pre-Babel WRITING was scrambled up.

[Tsubasa & Wen Tien]

Aliens have simple reasons: territory, slavery, money, enemies, etc. Things that are not complicated, my point is still valid on their reasons.

Demigods are generally saving the world or conquering for territory. Do they tell anyone? Generally not, but that is because they don't think about doing that, their first thoughts are that they'll be the ones to save the world, oftentimes for glory, do they tell anyone because they can't? No.

[Mik_Hael]

I count the entirety of notable armies, such as the spartans, and my reason for them invading hasn't changed once, a reason for them invading wasn't even required it hasn't changed once, you can't twist words that I haven't spoken.

Pre babel was an example and in all honesty it's not neccessary, I fully believe that there would be no language barrier simply because translators would exist within the army. Now stop trying to pick apart the existence of the army and return to the point of the discussion which was why you think they would fail to conquer the world.

[Mik_Hael]

I always thought personally that ghosts and spirits, and angels and demons somehow managed to speak some universal language, otherwise you wouldn't understand st. Peter at the gate or whatever a religion's version of grim reaper is.

[Tsubasa & Wen Tien]

You gave at least one reason:

Mik_Hael wrote

Shadow, what do you think would happen if Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, Teddy Roosevelt, and Abraham Lincoln suddenly stepped out of a flash of light, and proclaimed that the state of America had become so devastated that they literally came back from death in order to fix it.

That's the exact quote and I'm not twisting that.

As for Spartans being a notable army, armies are not notable figures, they are groups of people, but cannot be counted as a figure because figures are individual people, not groups.

Picking apart the army? The fact that they can't communicate reliably with one another is a reason why they'd fail, in addition to the other stated ones being: money, transportation, reliable access to what they'd need, consistent contact with one another, etc. Even a highly depleted police force that has had several budget cuts like where I'm living could stop a rioting force of a couple dozen people. Good weapons cost more money than what someone on the street could easily obtain. If most of the notable figures were to try to regain their assets from when they were alive, the ones who would gain would be the ones who died with nothing.

[Mik_Hael]

That was a side tangent I was asking shadowulf in response to a response he made to me that was not originally a part of my original discussion with Zaleramancer.

Every soldier is important, or do you not think that people who sacrificed their lives fighting for what they believed in to be notable.

I already answered that question, pay attention, and this isn't a handful of people, it's hundreds of thousands on the low end, perhaps a few million if need be, even then the only ones who need to discuss something outside of their language are the leaders, and given that G8 and the league of nations exist, once again there should be no problem.

[Tsubasa & Wen Tien]

They are notable, but you specified figures and armies are not figures, because a figure is an individual person. If you include armies into this, then you are attempting to redefine the meaning of figure itself, of which there is a definition of already.

The League of Nations? What League of Nations? The League of Nations existed until 1946, there is no League of Nations today. As for the G8, that only helps some of the people, you cannot possibly know of enough people to translate between every single possible notable figure that you can think of. Start naming everyone you can think of off the top of your head.

[Celadon's Penultimate]

It's likely the case. But that's referring to ghosts, not past versions of the person when they were alive. It's one thing to contact the ghost, and a whole 'nother thing to actually contact the person when they were alive in the past.

[Mik_Hael]

I'm starting to get pissed because it's late and I've been arguing my case with three people for the past 6 hours so forgive me if I mixed up the name of one group of several nations banded together with that of the current one.

I CAN'T NAME THE PEOPLE BECAUSE IT'S FUCKING LATE AND I'M GOING TO SLEEP.

I'd use more tact but at this point I have a headache, my eyes are trying to escape from my skull, and I've been arguing the same point for 2 hours with someone who I am convinced either hates me or just dislikes everything I ever say.

I'll continue this discussion later but until then i'm going to sleep so I can actually carry this on politely.

FORGIVE MY DAMNED DURESS.

[Mik_Hael]

I guess we have to decide on whether in this scenario they were pulled directly from their prime or have some knowledge of what happened to them after their death, in which case they would retain luinguistic information.

But like I said I'm tired and going to sleep, thanks for not ruthelessly poking holes in my argument in a three on one fight after I tried a simple logical battle with zaleramancer to outline the steps they would take while he countered them.

I am tired, and anger is taking over, good night, I will continue this at a later date.

[Tsubasa & Wen Tien]

Good night. And do note I'm looking at this based on how my teachers have looked at my essays, which is quite useful, because the facts should be right otherwise arguments become invalid and lose relevance. I don't hate you and while I may not care for everything you say, I'm not arguing with you for the sake of it. There are a couple of holes that need to be closed up before it can be considered worthwhile to argue for notable figures taking over the world.

[Mik_Hael]

Fair enough, considering it was a spur of the thread* argument on a for fun moment that I posted because it kicked ass it was bound to have some holes which would appear under such scrutiny.

and I forgot this before but apparently google translate works surprisingly well in surpassing the language barrier, i've managed to carry several legible conversations with the French through an mmorpg using it without issue.

* Ah repeatety, happens when I'm barely conscious, sorry for the typo.