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[Marvelous Miscreant]

[Celadon's Penultimate]

 *snicker*

[WonderDrow]

So if I understand correctly.

According Marv guns are evil, since they are created for killing.
And according Wulf guns aren't evil, just the people who use them with evil intend.



Oh well, maybe it comes down too your understanding of that concept called "evil".


A soldier who fights for the interests of his country and kills another soldier. Is that soldier evil?

[Marvelous Miscreant]

I did not say guns were evil, because their purpose is to protect. But a machine designed purely for evil purposes would be evil.

[Celadon's Penultimate]

Oh, really? A gun's only purpose is to protect? Never to intimidate or to do unnecessary harm?

Come one, let me know. Can one gun be evil (having been made with the intention to kill), and another be good (having been made with the intention to protect)?

I want to know! Can items have intentions or not?

[Marvelous Miscreant]

Why are you getting so defensive? I have my opinion and you have yours.

Let's just move on.

[Celadon's Penultimate]

 Who's defensive?

I just don't see the logic behind what you're saying.

Man, this convo is making me really want to put up that debate thread I was considering. If I put down some ground rules for engagement, I think it could release a lot of social tension between us all, and be a pretty useful logical sparring ground.

[Marvelous Miscreant]

You don't have to see my logic. You have your opinion and I have mine.

[Celadon's Penultimate]

 Somebody's evasive.

[Marvelous Miscreant]

I just don't see the point in arguing over a difference in opinion. You're the one who told me not to get worked up over something. I'm simply trying to avoid it.

[Celadon's Penultimate]

Well, yeah, but it doesn't mean you can never defend your point. All you really need to know it how to do it without losing your temper...

[WonderDrow]

Indeed lets not argue.  This comes down to a matter of oppinion.
Either you attribute evil to devices or you don't.

In the case of guns that could lead to discussions about the right to defend yourself.
Also matters of oppinion.

Personally I can see evil in devices.  If they were created with an evil purpose in mind.

For example the iron maiden torture device.
One can't claim that this old torture device was used for protection.
In my oppinion that device is evil.  
Even though it's nothing more then a coffin with spikes.

[Myself]

Ah, the iron maiden, in which all the spikes are placed in order to all miss the vital organ, prolonging your agony.

[Celadon's Penultimate]

Doesn't matter what the purpose of the object is. An object cannot have intentions, because they do not have souls. Evil is a matter of morals, not of outright physical function. Likewise, function does not determine only one potential use for an object.

ie a mousetrap is used to snap down on a mouse's body (head, tail, etc) but it could also be potentially used in some other situation excluding harm or death of an animal (like being set up in a contraption to flick a switch or something).

Items cannot have morals, simple as that.

And srsly, nobody wants a debate thread???

[Celadon's Penultimate]

 Indeed.

[Mik_Hael]

.....I think I found a bot on deviantart....It was a new user, just signed up the day I saw it, and it already had several thousand favorites. In addition to this when someone responded in order to thank it for the fave, it generated a mass produced message involving some sort of link to a free product.

[Marvelous Miscreant]

So? People create bots all the time. This doesn't really warrant its own thread.

[Mik_Hael]

But, an art, bot............................where do people get all of these things, and if they make them from scratch where do they learn....in addition to that, an art bot would be interesting...something that takes random pictures from the internet and makes random changes. Eventually it might create something considered as abstract art....

[WonderDrow]

It's out there : http://www.artbots.org

[Gentleman Vaultboy]

"Many will debate, at great length, which of our two worlds is our true 'origin.' This line of thinking is absurd, and shows a gross misunderstanding of the circumstances of our existence. The truth of the matter, as I've argued time and time again, is that we are the product of both worlds. The dark chaotic spirit world our father, this nurturing physical world our mother." - Union of Realities: How two worlds conspired to create sentience, Miriam Hadly.

In the beginning, there was only the spirit world. A ever shifting world inhabited by formless beings, spirits, who preyed upon each other in an endless game of cat and mouse. A world where only the strong reined, like great jungle beasts, and cooperation was a foreign concept, where the weak were devoured without second though. In this world of monsters lived the souls, the weakest form of spirit. The only communal spirit, drawn together out of pure need weakness. Because they were weak, they traveled in groups. Because they were weak, they hid in the deepest, most twisting passages of the world. Because they were weak, they scavenged scraps from the battles of the stronger spirits.

Because they were weak, they grew intelligent.
Because they were intelligent, they grew numerous.

Their numbers grew until finally they were to many to hide from the stronger spirits, who descended into the depths in a horrible feeding frenzy. Though able to hold off the attacks thank to their great numbers, they lost hundreds for every enemy destroyed. Obliteration upon them, they turned to their greatest mind, Zion, to find a new, larger place for them to hide.

Zion searched throughout the great depths with his seven disciples (Justine, Enoch, Caius, Woton, Kiddo, Lopto, and Ravana), trying to find a hiding place to accommodate the great number of souls. They dived down and down, deeper than any spirit had ever gone before. They dived until they encountered something no spirit had ever encountered before; a wall. A clear wall, though which they could see an endless blue. Desperate for any success and thinking of their fellows, the group banded together and tore a hole through this wall.

Up became down, and they emerged into a world of order. The physical realm. A realm it is sad to say, they could not survive in. Without the energy of the spirit world, they could not sustain themselves. They were forced back into the tear, but not before seeing that living things inhabited this new world. Things unlike the chaotic and powerful spirits that were their enemies. Compared to the one they were used to, the new world was a paradise. They resolved to keep trying.

Splitting up, they searched along the wall, cracking through in places to learn more about this world. After many trials and adventures, they found one another again by the holes they had made and discussed their plan. They had learned many thing, including that they cold inhabit creatures that possessed 'life'. However, it was not a stable connection. they would have to be molded into a more inhabitable shape.

These first experiments resulted in the creation of the Naturals, the beast folk. However, Zion was not satisfied with these prototypes. He would not allow his people to be weak again, he decided. To this end, he took bits of the creatures of the world to produce "Perfect bodies" for his kind to inhabit. The human form, lovingly crafted by  All-Shaper Zion. Great giants, 10 feet tall and marked with glowing veins. Immortal, not susceptible to disease or fatigue, with the ability to manufacture more of themselves. 7000 bodies like this he crafted, with help from his 7. The Marked Ones. The Gods. He sent forth for 7000 souls to help create the number of bodies necessary to house the rest of his race. 7000 were spared from the battle to help populate the new world.

However, the first children were born..... wrong. Small, weak, and they aged like the creature of this world. Ever the perfectionist, he wanted to abandon the project and start again. But that was not possible. His brethren in the spirit world were rapidly losing ground. He could not fix the problem. He had not the time. As children were born, the souls began to flood though the tear. Billions were left behind to stall the great spirits, so they would not discover the tear. But there sacrifices was not in vain.

In the physical world the souls worked their new bodies to built a great home for themselves, ruled over and protected by Zion and his 7007. The age of the Gods had begun.

It is such a shame that such an age was not to last.