D&D Battle Arena

[Philote]

Philote wrote

Hmm, I wonder if we could do a 3.5 v 4.0 sort of thing and let people use whichever edition they want, though I feel that 4.0 would get beaten at the upper levels.

Unless we only used the character builders for the base abilities and RPed most of it as we usually do.

[Zaleramancer]

Huh.

Well, I guess.

If I really wanted to curb stomp, I'd just make a Wizard.

Dimensional Anchor + Forcecage.

No way out, barring insane escape artist levels.

[Philote]

Does 3.5 use Paragon classes and Epic Destinies at the 11th and 21st levels also?

In 4.0, one of the things I don't like about it, is that every 10 levels you start replacing your abilities for stronger ones instead of just adding more abilities. Though we could ignore that to make it fit with 3.5.

[Zaleramancer]

Ah.. No.

There are such things as Racial Paragon Classes .

Epic Destinies are nothing I've heard of.

In 3.5, you simply gain class abilities as you level.

Of course, non-magic casting classes sometimes get screwed over because they get pathetic features.

At level 20, a Fighter has a bunch of feats.

A wizard has fifty something ways to make the universe cry.

[Philote]

In 4.0 at level 11 each character has a list of Paragon paths. These are like extensions to their base class which usually either relate to their class or species. They offer a couple powerful feats at certain levels as well as extra skills ontop of the ones normally gained through leveling.

Epic Destinies are the same but at level 21 and usually even more crazy in scale. Each Epic Destiny usually gives a class a feat to escape death around the same level and pretty much makes every class immortal at level 30. Some are available to everyone, like everyone can become a Demi-God, but some are class specific. Like a Rogue one that lets them steal intangible objects like a person's eye color and to steal themselves from death. It also lets them steal any one thing from anything they defeat as long as the DM allows.

[Zaleramancer]

Interesting.

[Philote]

Yeah, so even a Fighter doesn't have to be left in the dust as they can become something like the Dragonheart, Adamantine Soldier, or Legendary Sovereign Epic Destinies.

[Zaleramancer]

Swordsages.

The book of Nine Swords.

It basically gives melee fighters options beyond "Hit it again".

Some people don't like it though. :/

[Philote]

What is a level 30 Fighter skill like in 3.5?

In 4.0 it is something like this:
Normal Skill: Image of Death: As enemies fall beneath your blade, you become the very image of death - a menacing presence sparking terror in all who behold you.

Epic Destiny Skill: Undying Enmity: You narrow your eyes, and even minor deities knows how it feels to be prey.

[Zaleramancer]

Pathetic.

Compared to, say, a wizard. Or that.

Compared to a normal person, quite threatening.

One of the many flaws of 3.5.

[Philote]

Yeah, I'm aware of the crazyness of upper level Wizard items. Like Wish which lets them do practically anything.

Wizards are brought down in 4.0, but most everything else is brought up to acceptable high levels of power for most campaigns I would assume.

[Zaleramancer]

This is why I like well-balanced and reviewed homebrew.

It allows problems to be fixed.

Fighter in 3.5 is a pathetically weak class.

I mentioned the tier system earlier.

Fighter is a bout a 5. Wizard is a 1.

Most of the nicely balanced classes are 3-4.

[Philote]

Well, I'm not sure how much nonofficial D&D stuff we want to rely on while doing an arena since any matter of thing could be brought in.

I think it just depends on how experienced a person is with D&D. The only I've done is with my roommates so the ease and balance of 4.0 is good for us. The stuff in 3.5 seems like it would take more work to make sure things were just right for the campaign.

[Zaleramancer]

Yes.

However, part of the fun is putting together a character from tons and tons of sources.

It makes for very.. interesting times.

[Philote]

Maybe we should just wing it and use both editions instead of trying to work out which mechanics to bring in to the arena match.

I'll just either avoid your wizards or RP up one of mine to try and fit the power.

[Zaleramancer]

If you'd like.

I'd just use a SwordSage.

[Tsubasa & Wen Tien]

I went back through my copy of the Immortal's Handbook (3.5e) and found a piece of OGC called 'Metamartial Maneouvers.' Metamartial maneouvers are essentially ways to make physical combat more interesting and are usable by anyone with enough BAB, allowing fighters to deal more damage, cause more status effects, attack from further away, etc. It can help with translating mechanical effects to roleplaying as well and they're mostly open to anyone with enough BAB (a few are restricted to epic levels). Interested?

[Zaleramancer]

Anything from that book makes me nervous.

[Tsubasa & Wen Tien]

Really? It has several nice feats for non-divine characters and the Metamartial Maneouvers are balanced.

Ex:

Immortal's Handbook - Ascension wrote

Mighty Attack
   Prereq: BAB +15, Target must be less than your light load
   Benefit: A successful attack can blast your opponent backwards. You take a -15 penalty to BAB for the attack. If you hit, the target must make a Fortitude save (DC equals the attack roll) or be knocked backwards. If they fail the Fortitude save they must also make a Reflex save (same DC) or be knocked prone.
    The distance such an opponent is knocked backwards depends on the relationship between the striker's strength and the target's weight. You can knock back something weighing equal to or less than your light load by 5 ft. For every halving of your light load the distance doubles (in this case a double-double is a quadruple). So for instance if your target weighs 1/20th your light load you would blast them back 20 times as far.
    Knocking a target back 10 feet causes 1d6 damage assuming they strike a solid surface. Each time you quadruple the distance, double the damage.
    There is no cap to the damage, however the target must strike a solid object or be bowled along the ground to suffer this damage. You could use a mighty attack to knock targets into the air, use the same damage to simulate falling down.
    If a mighty attack causes a target to fly back and strike another opponent, the secondary target (who breaks their fall) suffers 1/2 the damage and the primary target suffers only 1/4 damage.
    In extreme cases, it is even possible to knock an opponent into orbit or even into the sun.

That last part probably requires STR 1000 or something...

[Tsubasa & Wen Tien]

Is there anything else that could be discussed for this thread?

Also, any ruling on Metamartial Manueovers?